Reflections on Thunderf00t Ray Comfort discussion

Yup too much stammer. However I had to cover a wide range of topics, while all Ray had to say was 'I know God dun it'.

Anyways, yes, I was far too stuttery, stammering.
Having said that I kept my side of the deal and uploaded the lot... warts and all.

Im actually uploading this from within sight of the Hooker telescope (Im in the observation gallery)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 9a)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 9)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 8)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 7)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 6)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 5)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 4)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 3)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 2)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion (Part 1)

The Thunderf00t - Ray Comfort discussion

(Over the next few posts I will put up the videos)

Discussion between Thunderf00t (Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic supporter (Pearlist)) and Ray Comfort (Creationist Christian).

Journal entry 22nd July 2009. (relevant bit, whole entry is too long for rest see beautyintheuniverse)

Up with dawnpeckish so found mcdonalds for breakfast. Back to Rays place where I had about 4 hrs to kill before our meeting at 11ish. Started adding placemarkers to the bible at the interesting bits I had found. By the time I had finished there was a lot of blue post it notes sticking out the bible. It has now also become clear to me that while my preferred modus opperandi has been in the defense of science, I have now read enough of the bible that I could utterly shred this shepherds myth. Its an interesting question should I set all the time I have spent going through the bible in detail to naught and just let Christianity have its peace, or should I actively engage in its demise. When the ministry opened at 9ish I went and introduced myself, and they gave me a rather officious line about not doing anything till the appointed time. No big deal for me, I put some effort into ordering the car and mending some bust electronics (resoldering wires etc). Stuff that had been put on the back burner for expediency on the road, but a more ordered man would have taken care of he went along. Saw Ray arrive by car, which raised an eyebrow as the 60 minutes thing said he cycled to work. Probably just he didnt want to cycle if he was going to be on camera. As a cyclist myself something I could empathize with. Ray is a small man, but chirpy and polite. Surprisingly Ray now informed me that there was no problem in me filming. Hmmm wtf?, but my only care at the time was the original deal was being honored. Shortly after he invited me in it was a little intro and pretty much straight down to business. The consequence of which was I only had a few minutes to brief him on points I wanted to raise. A point which I was keen on doing as I wanted the point I was making to survive robust scrutiny, and not to survive simply as they were bought up in real time (catching someone on the hop). The moments that raised an eyebrow for me was how quickly ray picked up on me lying to him, as an example of how religions are created an propagated. (by mechanism of the almighty Tod!) I am a poor liar. Its amazing though, how well even folk like ray can pick up on the bodylanguage. On watching the video you can see it all. How he gets uncomfortable and starts shuffling. I cant remember too much of the details (it was too much of a manic day) but I do remember seeing Ray being troubled by some of the points I was making. I could see the doubt of a man challenged with a concept altogether new to him. I could see it in his bodylanguage of his eyes. After that we went to lunch ray was buying. We took the camera man too who is obviously a hovind fan. Systematically I went through his points one by one and in the most mild of demeanors academically shredded them. The shame being that noone else at the table, other than myself would have been able to assess the academic veracity of my arguments. Ray offered to help me out by putting me up in a motel for a night (after a fashion). The offer was sincere and I think somewhat precipitated by rays sympathy for what he perceived as my hardship. I graciously thanked him for the offer but turned it down in that I like rough life in the wide open space. After lunch ray gave me a tour of the ministry. The place clearly oozes with money. Rays artifacts are very coy (a skeleton for the cupboard etc) He also has a collection of fake hominids not something to inspire someone with confidence about ones academic footing.

Then had a long chat with the camera man about the history of the earth (using the correlated history of earth poster). One by one I cut down the hovind arguments, and eventually all he had left was to simply say there are both sides of the argument.

Its amazing testament to the feedback mechanisms of the mind, that even after the foundations of his belief had been systematically and academically removed till none remained that he was still sure that there was two sides to the argument. Then had another chat with ray, which I wish I had recorded.. mostly about the bible. The things I really remember was that Ray believes in witches, wizards, demons and sorcerers. Hmmm thats usually a end of conversation type moment. He also thinks that the holocaust was gods way of punishing the jews. I told him very clearly that that was not going to make him very popular if he voiced such opinions in public.

Ray left and I spent an hour talking with his graphic design man. He clearly wasnt greatly interested in talking about points of contest, and we got on very well. He was a model maker and pilot. We talked teccie for an hour or so. A good guy!

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Atheism. The New Calling

Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor speaks with Roger Bolton on BBC Radio

Ok so now were not fully human

So atheists are aliens from another planet?

I could have sworn I was human!!!

Atheist Agenda? Sean Hannity

papal bull

Penn Says: Prayer Test

2010: Year of the Bible (WTF)

Seriously WTF!!

2010: Year of the Bible « An Apostate’s Chapel

No, you don’t need to check you calendars. It really isn’t April 1 and this really isn’t an April Fool’s prank. Rep. Paul Broun (R- GA) wants President Obama to designate 2010 as “The National Year of the Bible.” Here’s the text of the resolution:

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

Encouraging the President to designate 2010 as ‘The National Year of the Bible’.

Whereas the Bible has had a profound impact in shaping America into a great Nation;

Whereas deep religious beliefs stemming from the Old and New Testament of the Bible have inspired Americans from all walks of life, especially the early settlers, whose faith, spiritual courage, and moral strength enabled them to endure intense hardships in this new land;

Whereas many of our Presidents have recognized the importance of God and the Bible, including George Washington; Franklin D. Roosevelt; Harry Truman; John F. Kennedy; Ronald Reagan, who declared 1983 as ‘The National Year of the Bible’; and especially Abraham Lincoln, whose 200th Birthday Celebration in 2009 highlighted freedom for the slaves;

Whereas shared Biblical beliefs unified the colonists and gave our early leaders the wisdom to write the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States, both of which recognized the inherent worth, dignity, and inalienable rights of each individual, thus unifying a diverse people with the right to vote, and the freedoms of speech and vast religious freedoms, which inspired courageous men like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to lead the Civil Rights Movement;

Whereas the Bible has been the world’s best selling book since it was first published in English in 1526, and has influenced more people than any other book;

Whereas the Bible has been a cornerstone in the development of Western civilization, influencing the nations in the areas of history, law, politics, culture, music, literature, art, drama, and especially moral philosophy;

Whereas the Bible, used as a moral guide, has inspired compassion, love for our neighbor, and the preciousness of life and marriage, and has stimulated many benevolent, faith-based community initiatives and neighborhood partnerships that have healed and blessed our families, communities, and our entire Nation, especially in times of war, tragedy, and economic and social crisis;

Whereas the Bible has inspired acts of patriotism that have unified Americans, commemorated through shared celebrations such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day, Presidents Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas; and

Whereas 2010 is an appropriate year to designate as ‘The National Year of the Bible’: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That the President is encouraged–

(1) to designate an appropriate year as ‘The National Year of the Bible’; and

(2) to issue a proclamation calling upon citizens of all faiths to rediscover and apply the priceless, timeless message of the Holy Scripture which has profoundly influenced and shaped the United States and its great democratic form of Government, as well as its rich spiritual heritage, and which has unified, healed, and strengthened its people for over 200 years.

I find it astonishing – actually, I can’t fathom it at all – that, in the midst of substantial domestic and global turmoil, this idiot believes that this resolution is worthwhile. He didn’t introduce a resolution (it’s probably far too much to expect actual legislation!) on education, health care, veteran’s medical benefits, economic measures, American global military commitments or any number of other significant issues. Nope. He appears to believe that the most pressing matter this country faces, having just completed a National Day of Prayer less than a week ago, is the need to have a National Year (a YEAR! Not a day, or a week, or a month – an entire fucking YEAR!) of the Bible. Presumably, the reason for this is that we are a Christian Nation, by God, and we’re not going to let any of those stubborn, wrong-headed adherents of other religions and especially those damned godless atheists (all of whom are going to roast in hell, all praise and glory be to the Christian God for his mysterious love, mercy and grace) forget it!

AARRGGHHH! Every time I resolve to start writing less about religion and more about positive aspects of non-belief, shit like this gets thrown in my face and I’m reminded of why religion matters, even – perhaps especially – to the non-religious. If Christians want to proclaim 2010 a National Year of the Bible within their denominations, and even across denominations, they should do it. They don’t need my blessing, nor do they need President Obama’s signature on fancy parchment. But, no, some of them aren’t satisfied with keeping their religion to themselves. They want to induce “citizens of all faiths to rediscover and apply the priceless, timeless message of the Holy Scripture which has profoundly influenced and shaped the United States.” Citizens who profess faiths other than Christianity are expected to have special reverence for Christianity even though they don’t believe it, and citizens of no faith are not given any consideration at all. That’s not surprising, of course. After all, President George H.W. Bush said “I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots.” As long as elected leaders like Rep. Broun continue believing that they can impose their religious beliefs on Americans at large, and as long as elected leaders like President George H.W. Bush continue using my lack of faith as grounds to deny my citizenship and the rights which accompany that citizenship, I will have no choice but to continue opposing the insertion of religious faith into public life.

If this resolution annoys you as much as it annoys me, you can contact President Obama and encourage him not to sign this resolution. You may also want to contact your Congressperson and your senators to let them know how you feel about this resolution. It would be a good thing for all of us to remind them to keep focused on things that matter; a National Year of the Bible is not one of them.

H/T to PZ Myers

– the chaplain

Errors in Biology Textbooks

What is up with theists, that cant understand that science does challenge it self. And that all theory's are challenged.

Science is for ever discovering new data, & facts.

Text books, can not be 100% accurate due to the newly discovered data.

Hidden Atheist Talk - Atheist and the Constitution